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Subject: RE: Form about the next plateform
From: Louise Erasmus (lerasmus@zoology.up.ac.za)
Date: jeu oct 11 2001 - 23:09:09 CEST
Personal opinion: Changing to another platform will disrupt my biological
cycle!
I have not much experience in computer programming, but enough to know that
SmallTalk is very easy to program - especially for multi-agent systems.
Also, it is easy to manage complex models in SmallTalk, and the debugger is
the best thing next to icecream!
Sure it takes a lot of memory, and I've been suffering in that respect, but,
should push come to shove, there is always the option of rewriting models
into another package that is less harsh on the system memory. For my models,
the problem is not that my agents run SLOWLY, but that they refuse to run at
all in Windows - and that I consider a Windows problem. As it is, Cormas
models can run (but not be programmed unless you replace the refractory
browser with the normal one) on Solaris and Unix machines in the later
versions of VisualWorks, and this works great! The refractory browser for
new versions of vw should come out soon, giving Cormas full functionality on
these machines.
Lastly, what is wrong with watching agents move SLOWLY? I like watching
colourful things running across the screen. It is entertaining!
Louise
Centre for Environmental Studies / Department of Zoology and Entomology
University of Pretoria
Pretoria
0002
http://www.up.ac.za/academic/centre-environmental-studies/
Tel. +27 12 420 4527
Fax +27 12 420 3210
"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship."
-Zeuxis
-----Original Message-----
From: Pablo Gomez Mourelo [mailto:pablogm@wanadoo.es]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:48 PM
To: Stanislas Boissau; green@cirad.fr; cormas
Subject: RE: Form about the next plateform
I think we should change to java or c++; it is much more 'standard' and that
is always convenient.
C++ has a very very efficient management of the computer resources, which is
very desirable when you try to simulate interactions of many agents QUICKLY.
WELL, THAT IS MY OPINION
regards
&&&>-----Mensaje original-----
&&&>De: Stanislas Boissau [mailto:sboissau@fpt.vn]
&&&>Enviado el: jueves, 11 de octubre de 2001 13:49
&&&>Para: green@cirad.fr; cormas
&&&>Asunto: Re: Form about the next plateform
&&&>
&&&>
&&&>Hi all,
&&&>I see an important question about the new Cormas2 platform
&&&>which I would
&&&>like to raise in this forum: should we keep it on VisualWorks and thus
&&&>Smalltalk language or change for another language??
&&&>It seems that many computer scientists find SmallTalk slow,
&&&>backward or not
&&&>fashioned (compared to Java for example). As I am not myself a computer
&&&>scientist and do not know any other language, I would like to
&&&>launch the
&&&>discussion on two points:
&&&>1- how is smallTalk compared to other languages from a computer science
&&&>point of view?
&&&>2- even if other languages perform better than smallTalk,
&&&>should we develop
&&&>Cormas in another language?
&&&>On the first point, I have absolutely no idea, but for the
&&&>second point, I
&&&>think that most of the Cormas users at this time are not computers
&&&>specialists, have made the effort to learn this language in
&&&>order to use
&&&>Cormas and are maybe not ready to learn another one... Further
&&&>more, even
&&&>if smallTalk is slower than other languages, how many of the models
&&&>developed so far need to run faster? I think that most of the models
&&&>developed aim at being as simple as possible (KISS) and don't
&&&>really need
&&&>more power. If someone wants to make very complicated models
&&&>which need a
&&&>lot of power, I think s/he should have the skills to do it in another
&&&>language with another platform maybe.
&&&>In summary, all I want to say is keep Cormas an easy to use
&&&>tool with which
&&&>you can develop a model in a few days before throwing it to the
&&&>trashbin.
&&&>Looking forward to hear from others
&&&>Cheers
&&&>Stan
&&&>
&&&>
&&&>At 16:11 05/10/01, Pierre Bommel wrote:
&&&>>============= English version ===================
&&&>>Dear all,
&&&>>
&&&>>Cormas is evolving step by step. Each year we propose a new evolution
&&&>>and we are planning to deliver a new one early 2002. Each of these
&&&>>evolution proposes new methods, pieces of code, simplifications.
&&&>>A part from this "natural evolution" of a tool, since a little
&&&>while and
&&&>>with the integration in the team of two computer scientists, we are
&&&>>planning the conceptualisation and preparation of a new platform :
&&&>>Cormas 2. The idea is to go beyond the "step-by-step" improvement of
&&&>>Cormas. Cormas 2 would be delivered in 2003. We naturally have already
&&&>>many ideas about it, but we wish to share this project with all the
&&&>>current users of Cormas. For this purpose, we subject you a brief
&&&>>survey. This form aims at drawing up an inventory of your requests or
&&&>>regrets. It is conceived to take the minimum of your time. Please, do
&&&>>not hesitate ! You can answer it either in French, or in English... or
&&&>>both!
&&&>>cheers,
&&&>>
&&&>> The Cormas team
&&&>>------------------------- form ---------------------------
&&&>>
&&&>>1 - Do you use (or did you use) Cormas: - regularly - from time to time
&&&>>- never ?
&&&>>2 - Did you already test other multi agents simulation platforms of ?
&&&>> If so, which one ?
&&&>> Their advantages:
&&&>> Their disadvantages:
&&&>>3 - What are the points which you apreciate in Cormas?
&&&>>4 - What are the missing tools in Cormas?
&&&>>5 - What are the Cormas's main weaknesses ?
&&&>>6 - In your most crazy dreams, how would you imagine the
&&&>platform of the
&&&>>future ?
&&&>>7 - What are your comments on this idea of preparing a new platform,
&&&>>parallel to the improvement of Cormas ?
&&&>>
&&&>>Thank you.
&&&>>============= version française ===================
&&&>>Bonjour à tous,
&&&>>
&&&>>Cormas continue d'évoluer pas à pas et chaque année, nous proposons une
&&&>>nouvelle version. Nous projetons d'ailleurs de livrer la
&&&>prochaine début
&&&>>2002. Chacune de ces évolutions apporte de nouvelles méthodes, des
&&&>>modifications et des simplifications.
&&&>>En marge de cette "évolution naturelle", avec l'arrivée dans notre
&&&>>équipe de deux informaticiens, nous projetons, depuis quelques
&&&>temps, la
&&&>>conceptualisation et la préparation d'une nouvelle plate-forme : Cormas
&&&>>II. L'idée est d'aller au delà une amélioration pas à pas de Cormas.
&&&>>Cormas II devrait être livré en 2003.
&&&>>Bien sûr nous avons déjà beaucoup d'idées, mais nous
&&&>souhaitons partager
&&&>>ce projet avec tous les utilisateurs actuels de Cormas. A cette fin,
&&&>>nous vous soumettons un petit sondage. Ce formulaire vise à dresser un
&&&>>état des lieux de vos demandes ou regrets. Il est conçu pour prendre le
&&&>>minimum de votre temps. N’hésitez pas ! Vous pouvez y répondre soit en
&&&>>français, soit en anglais... soit les deux !
&&&>>Amicalement,
&&&>>
&&&>> The Cormas team
&&&>>------------------------- questionnaire ------------------------
&&&>>1- Vous utilisez (ou vous avez utilisez) Cormas : - régulièrement -
&&&>>de temps en temps - jamais ?
&&&>>2- Avez-vous déjà testé d'autres plateforme de simulation
&&&>multi agents ?
&&&>>
&&&>> Si oui, lesquelles ?
&&&>> Leurs avantages :
&&&>> Leurs inconvénients :
&&&>>3- Quels sont les points que vous appréciez dans Cormas ?
&&&>>4- Quels sont les outils qui vous manquent dans Cormas ?
&&&>>5- Quels sont les principales faiblesses de Cormas ?
&&&>>6- Dans vos rêves les plus fous, comment imagineriez-vous la plateforme
&&&>>du futur ?
&&&>>7- Avez-vous des commentaires concernant la préparation d'une nouvelle
&&&>>plateforme, parallèlement à l'amélioration de Cormas ?
&&&>>
&&&>>Merci.
&&&>
&&&>