|
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Form about the next plateform
From: Stanislas Boissau (sboissau@fpt.vn)
Date: mar oct 16 2001 - 17:50:20 CEST
Hi all,
from this discussion, and whatever the language to be chosen for the
Cormas2 platform, I may draw the following conclusion (recommendation for
developpers): Cormas should be kept as an easy programming platform
destinated to all kind of users, particularly including those who are not
computer scientists. I think everybody may agree with this... This
particularly means that a number of facilities may be provided with the
platform. Some (many) are already present but for the future, what kind of
tools/facilities would you like to be added/modified? What do you exactly
need? What are your dreams in terms of tools/easiness for the next platform?
Maybe this question could help in choosing the language as compared
performances of Java and SmallTalk appear much debatable and the discussion
tends to discuss tools associated with languages and development
environments...
Cheers
Stan
PS: Sorry for those who got used to this very quiet forum but I think the
discussion is of major importance...
At 17:01 16/10/01, Becu Nicolas wrote:
>I agree about the two different kind of Cormas users
>but I would define them in a different way
>
>1/ Those who are interested in building simple models
>in a short period of time and who are already familiar
>with Small Talk programming. In that case, I think
>it’s better to keep Cormas in ST : first because it’s
>easy to learn and to program, and second because the
>actual users (who are, most of them “non
>computer-specialists") will not loose all their ST
>knowledge.
>
>2/ On a second hand I think some users are interested
>by building bigger models, more complex one. In that
>case shifting to JAVA could be interesting. We could
>benefit from some features already available in JAVA
>like linkage to different kind of tools. We could also
>benefit from all the small JAVA programs that are
>available on the web, like different kind of graphic
>interface that we could incorporate in our models etc…
>I see the advantage of JAVA more in terms of things
>that we could pick up on the web or elsewhere then in
>terms of programming power.
>
>Now, I heard, or may be I’ve dreamed it, that it would
>be possible to have both ST and JAVA, in a same Cormas
>plateform. In that case both kind of users would be
>satisfied.
>If this is possible, I would suggest that the Cormas
>training remain in ST (I think it’s easier to learn
>then JAVA), or at least for a while. In some future
>version we could then think of shifting all the
>platform to JAVA. That will give time to the Cormas
>community to adapt themselves to JAVA (if it’s
>relevant and adapted to small and quick model
>programming).
>In conclusion, I think we should make a smooth
>transition to JAVA and let time to the actual users to
>experience JAVA and decide if it’s suitable or not to
>their modelisation work.
>
>Cheers,
>Nicolas
>
>
>
> --- "Jourdain, Damien" <D.JOURDAIN@CGIAR.ORG> a
>écrit : > Hi there.
> >
> > Given the discussion going on the future CORMAS II
> > platform... it is clear
> > that the platform has two different kind of
> > "clients"...
> >
> > Those, "non computer-specialists" (like me), who
> > enjoy smalltalk for its
> > simplicity, and are not very keen on changing for
> > something scary like Java
> > (I'm not even thinking of C++)
> >
> > and
> >
> > Those, "computer-specialists", who might see in
> > Smalltalk something like a
> > "retrograde" program, and want to go all the way to
> > more mainstream
> > languages (with large communities of users, and
> > therefore better product
> > support (for the language I mean, cause I have
> > nothing bad to say about
> > CORMAS support) , and better interconnection with
> > other applications ...).
> >
> > The question is:
> > Is it possible to reconciliate those two worlds?
> > Or are we talking of two different products, for two
> > different communities
> > in the future...
> >
> > Having said that, could the newer versions of
> > Smalltalk (5i?) be a
> > compromise? i.e. with newer features and better
> > interconnections with recent
> > applications without having to go through a new
> > language training?
> >
> > Let's remember the initial purpose of CORMAS (at
> > least the one I
> > understood), user friendly platform so that
> > computer-illiterates can have
> > access to the world of MAS. (cf. Stanislas'
> > message).
> >
> >
> > Finally, if speed if something important and
> > diversion something less
> > important, I would suggest having the possibility to
> > disable, when
> > necessary, the graphical interface.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > Damien
>
>=====
>Nicolas BECU
>Res. Eden Park 2F, 833 Ch. des Combes
>06600 Antibes - France
>Tel: 06 19 89 36 91
>
>___________________________________________________________
>Un nouveau Nokia Game commence.
>Allez sur http://fr.yahoo.com/nokiagame avant le 3 novembre
>pour participer à cette aventure tous médias.