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Subject: Re: Emergence
From: Jean-Pierre Müller (jean-pierre.muller@info.unine.ch)
Date: mar jan 23 2001 - 17:27:58 CET
Hi,
the observer did not disappeared, each entity (or at least some) participating
locally to the global emergence is an observer of it. It is how I consider the
implementation of the emergent phenomena having a feedback AS SUCH at the local
level. How could such a feedback occur without a mediation somewhere. As a
particular case, consider an observer able to change the parameters of a
simulation WHILE it runs. It becomes part of the simulation at the local level
(changing the parameters) observing the global level. It is the case in
simulation games.
Best regards
Jean-Pierre
Stanislas.Boissau@Alg.VLK.WAU.NL wrote:
> Hi,
> I think that I see the distinction you make between weak and strong emergence,
> but in the case of strong emergence what can/could/should be the role of the
> observer. It seems that in such a second order emergence s/he has
> "disappeared"...
> Best regards
> Stan
>
> "Jean-Pierre Müller" <jean-pierre.muller@info.unine.ch> wrote:
> >Hi!
> >
> >To continue the debate, I join a paper written following the other reference
> >where I develop a little bit the notions of first and second-order emergence
> >(I call it weak and strong emergence) where the distinction is whether the
> >emergent phenomena is only observable by an external observer or by the
> >entities whose interactions participate to the emergence themselves. I point
> >an important factor for having a second-order or strong emergence: the
> >existence of a medium on which the global emergent phenomena can be projected
> >and which can be perceived by an individual. I guess it is what happens in
> >human societies: myths, symbols, writings, institutions, laws, etc.
> >
> >I am currently animating a working group on the role of the environment in
> >multi-agent systems and the role of inscription medium appears crucial.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Jean-Pierre
> >
> >Stanislas.Boissau@Alg.VLK.WAU.NL wrote:
> >
> >> It just emerged from the web (let's hope it's a second order emergence)...
> >> http://users.info.unicaen.fr/~delepine/publi.html
> >>
> >> the debate must go on...
> >>
> >> Stan
> >>
> >> On Wed Jan 17 19:17:21 2001,
> >> "Christophe Le Page" <lepage@cirad.fr> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Hi there !
> >> >
> >> >Let's see if a debate is going to emerge from this quiet forum...
> >> >
> >> >In the proceedings of JFIADSMA'97, there is a paper resulting
> >> >from a collective effort (a working group from AFCET/AFIA),
> >> >signed under the joking pseudonym M.R. Jean. The title is:
> >> >
> >> >Emergence et SMA
> >> >
> >> >It's in french, and provides a large number of references about
> >> >this subject
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >clp
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >